AI can help a manager organize a project, synthesize information, or draft a difficult message in seconds. It cannot decide what a team most needs to hear. It cannot repair trust after a difficult interaction. And it cannot create the conditions in which people feel safe enough to take risks, receive feedback, and grow.
That tension is at the center of this episode of The Leader Lab.
Megan Wheeler, Director of People Development at Articulate, joins Micaela Mathre to explore what happens to leadership development when work becomes more remote, more technology-enabled, and significantly faster.
Megan has experienced manager development from nearly every angle. With a background in industrial-organizational psychology, she began her career studying leadership and designing learning experiences. Before joining Articulate, she later spent more than seven years at LifeLabs Learning, helping thousands of managers build practical, science-backed skills.
She sees enormous value in using AI to expand capability, remove friction, and support work that may not come naturally. It can help someone create a project plan, work through a spreadsheet formula, organize ideas, or prepare for a difficult conversation. But using AI well also means making conscious decisions about what should remain human.
A manager may use AI to think through a sensitive message, but copy-pasting an AI-generated note to a direct report risks removing the care and judgment the moment requires. Feedback, trust-building, coaching, and personal communication cannot be reduced to information transfer. They depend on the relationship between the people involved.
The more AI expands what people can accomplish cognitively, the more important it becomes to create opportunities for live dialogue, reflection, feedback, and learning in community.
Throughout the conversation, Megan identifies several practical behaviors managers can use immediately:
For People and L&D leaders, the broader implication is clear: AI readiness and manager readiness cannot be separated.
As work becomes faster and less predictable, organizations need managers who can create clarity, coach through uncertainty, give useful feedback, build trust, and help people adapt. Those capabilities do not emerge from information alone. They become reliable through practice, shared language, organizational reinforcement, and repeated behavior.
Listen to the full episode for a practical conversation about manager effectiveness, human connection, and designing leadership development for the future of work.
“If AI expands our cognitive capacity, then human connection expands our developmental capacity.” – Megan Wheeler, Director of People Development at Articulate
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Transcript:
Megan Wheeler 00:00
But one person that comes to mind isn’t so much that she was a bad manager. She was so anxious. She carried that energy.
It was an energy of angst. So her energy took over the room, and I think that it was a, a self-awareness she didn’t realize.
You know, she would get in her head and get really upset about stuff that truly wasn’t that big of a deal. Or it didn’t seem so
to me. And so that lesson in there for me is the self-awareness piece. In leadership, we talk a lot about skills or behaviors,
but so much of thing, it has to start with yourself. And I think even this quote was probably, I think from Stephen Covey, of,
“We judge ourselves by our intentions and others judge us by our behaviors.
”
Micaela Mathre 00:00
Welcome to the Leader Lab podcast. I’m Micaela Mathre, Chief Marketing Officer at LifeLabs Learning. If you’re a senior
people leader, you’re navigating a workplace that’s changing faster than ever. This season, we’re exploring what it really
takes to build resilient and adaptable leaders, managers, and teams. Let’s dive in.
Micaela Mathre 00:00
So excited to have with me today on the Leader Lab, Megan Wheeler, who is the director of people development at
Articulate, where she leads initiatives that help people in organizations grow, learn, and thrive. She’s got a background in
industrial organizational psychology and nearly two decades of experience in leadership development, coaching, and
facilitation. Megan’s worked with leaders and teams across a wide range of industries to build stronger cultures and more
effective workplaces. Megan also spent seven years at LifeLab Learning, and she was employee number five, where she
served as the director of facilitation and leadership training, helping thousands of managers and employees develop
practical science-backed leadership skills. She’s also the founder and CEO of Spoken, reflecting her passion for counication,
connection, and human development. Welcome to the Leader Lab, Megan.
Megan Wheeler 00:44
Thank you, Micaela.
Micaela Mathre 00:45
Tell me about kinda, like, your career arc and when you joined LifeLabs, what led up to that?
Megan Wheeler 00:51
Moved to New York City right after graduating college and knew I was gonna go to grad school, so I wanted to get some job
in the field of organizational psychology. I knew that’s what I wanted to go into, was leadership development, and so that
was something that became clear to me in hindsight even as a young kid.
Megan Wheeler 01:08
I think I played really competitive sports. I played competitive volleyball. And I’m still to this day, like, team sports.
Megan Wheeler 01:14
there’s so much of the psychology and around leadership and just how to collaborate and work with other people. But I, I
really loved these workshops that we would go to. Ones, you know, with the Stephen Covey or for the Franklin Covey stuff.
Megan Wheeler 01:27
And I remember really finding it really valuable, and I remember really finding it really valuable, and actually something that
I learned at LifeLabs that has stuck with me, and maybe it’s just having that name, but that idea of, like, experimentation.
And I remember Leanne always talking about thinking like a scientist. And I think that’s still even probably built into the
language of the workshops. This was 2013.
Megan Wheeler 01:51
Somebody had mentioned that they went to some workshop, and it maybe was in an apartment or, like, through Time Out
magazine, where And it was Leanne was teaching a, it was either the Smells of New York workshop or, like- a body language
workshop. So this was back in the day where Leanne was doing all sorts of fun things like bringing in her cognitive
psychology to different workshops that you could sign up for through a meet up or, or something like that.
Micaela Mathre 02:16
And Leanne Reneker, who’s one of the founders of LifeLabs.
Megan Wheeler 02:19
Yes, exactly.At that point in time, it was really hard for me to find manager training that I thought would, you know, speak to
the people. It was a lot of people in business suits, very corporate-y, corporate, corporate.And it was just, was not the right
fit for
Micaela Mathre 02:32
Culturally, when you’re thinking about the profile that we just talked about.
Megan Wheeler 02:35
Exactly. And so I found, I reached out to LifeLabs, fell in love with them.Tanya Luna was the person that I was speaking to
there, who’s also a-
Micaela Mathre 02:44
A co-founder, yeah
Megan Wheeler 02:44
Yes, a co-founder of LifeLabs. And so brought them in, and they led our manager trainings.And I just, I fell in love with
them.They were super actionable. And I didn’t know that I wanted to continue, like, grinding in New York City.
Megan Wheeler 03:01
And so I put in my notice and packed up all of my things, and I booked a one-way ticket to Asia, and told Tanya, I remember
having this conversation with Tanya of like,
“Hey, I am leaving. If you at all ever are growing and you’re looking for more
facilitators, this is exactly the work that I want to be doing.
” “And I’d be interested in staying in touch.
” And we did, so I
remember interviewing while I was living in Indonesia, and I was getting my coaching certification out of Singapore. So I,
every once a month, I would fly to Singapore, go through my coaching certification,
’cause it was a five-month process, and I
was interviewing at LifeLabs.
Megan Wheeler 03:37
You know, they offered me the role, and I said,
“Great. Could I do it remotely?” And at that point they’re like,
come back to New York.
” So I moved back to New York in 2016. That was the beginning of this.
“No, you gotta
Micaela Mathre 03:45
There’s something in there for listeners that I actually, , have noticed in a number of conversations. , when it comes to kind
of forging your way and finding your career path, planting seeds. So, like, that conversation that you had with the LifeLabs
team, like,
“Listen, I’m doing this thing. I’m going to Indonesia. But I am interested in the work that y’all are doing.
” It’s very
much just you speaking into existence. Like, I’m interested in this thing, and if something opens up, please let me know.
Right? And then they’ve got you in the back of their head.
Micaela Mathre 04:17
When the time comes up where they’re like,
“Oh, we’re growing and we’ve got more clients than we know what to do with,
and we gotta hire more people,
” you’re, like, on their mind to reach out to, and I think that’s just, like, a little bit of advice,
especially for folks early career.
Micaela Mathre 04:30
And knowing job searching is really tough right now. Like, put feelers out there. Name the intention. As somebody who’s
been more on the hiring end a lot more recently, I remember those conversations. The pressure-free conversations of, like, I
interact, sometimes it’s, , with a client or somebody who’s like,
“You know what?I really love the work that y’all are doing.
” “If
there’s ever this role, X, Y, Z, like, I would be interested in that.
” And you come back to that, I think, as folks who are, are
hiring.
Megan Wheeler 04:54
Completely agree. And I know it’s awkward for a lot of people, because it feels icky or network-y. But that goes back to
connection. I think that that’s just this through line in my life, and I think what humanity is, is connection. Of course you can
get a job. People do it. Get a job by randomly applying online. In today’s market, it’s really, really hard. And I look at my
career.Every single role I’ve gotten since my first job has been through someone I knew.
Megan Wheeler 05:27
And having these conversations before I was desperate, before I needed something. But just really truly valuing
relationships and connections, and it’s not always your best friends that are gonna be the ones that are gonna help you
out.Finding the connection with someone even if it’s loose, and maintaining that.And even as cringe as, you know, LinkedIn
can be, it’s still helpful if you work in corporate America to stay connected in that way. And use it for what can serve us.
Micaela Mathre 05:53
Tell me a little bit about your worst boss story or, like, the worst experience of a manager.
Megan Wheeler 06:00
Not to be all kumbaya, but I think even my challenging managers, I’ve learned something from them. But one person that
comes to mind isn’t so much that she was a bad manager. She was so anxious. She carried that energy.It was an energy of
angst. So her energy took over the room, and I think that it was a, a self-awareness she didn’t realize.You know, she would
get in her head and get really upset about stuff that truly wasn’t that big of a deal.
Megan Wheeler 06:30
Or it didn’t seem so to me. , and so that lesson in there for me is the self-awareness piece. In leadership, we talk a lot about
skills or behaviors, but so much of thing, it has to start with yourself. And I think even this quote was probably, I think from
Stephen Covey, of,
“We judge ourselves by our intentions and others judge us by our behaviors.
” So even with the best
intentions, others are just seeing what they see and how you act and how you make them feel.And so I think that, to me,
was It was hard to work with someone who took themselves so seriously.
Megan Wheeler 07:06
I think I have a value of play.I take my work very seriously, but I try to have fun while doing it, and I also, from a learning
perspective I don’t think people can learn if they’re not having a little bit of fun. Whatever fun is to them.
Micaela Mathre 07:19
I run the sales team at LifeLab Learning, and one of the things we did in our weekly was set an intention for July. And my
intention was to have more self-awareness about how I show up, and my presence and, like, thoughtfulness.And something
we oftentimes say at LifeLab says that we’re working in HR, not ER.
Micaela Mathre 07:41
And that is So that’s my kind of like July intention is just, like, be aware of how you’re showing up. Longer pauses, deeper
breaths. Because at the end of the day, like, the way I show up not only affects me, but the people around me. And they’re
cuing off of that.
Megan Wheeler 07:56
And I think, especially in a remote environment, we don’t always realize, or maybe we turn off our camera so we don’t get
distracted with our own view. We can see those parallels
Megan Wheeler 08:05
We can notice the facial expressions. Especially as leaders. And that’s one thing that I think I reflect on from my LifeLab days
as well, is I went from studying leadership, researching leadership, telling other people how to be leaders, to then becoming
a leader of a team to then becoming a leader of a department, and becoming a mother. Like, there were so many moments
Megan Wheeler 08:29
Of damn. You know, this is, this is work to be done, and we are also human. If we can build a foundation of trust, if we can
build a foundation of You know, think of that emotional bank account, of more times than not, are we showing up for other
people? Are we showing up with presence and with thoughtfulness?People are gonna give us some grace to not be perfect
all the time, and I think that was something I had to learn along the way as well.
Micaela Mathre 08:54
Tell me a little bit more about going from kind of that research, academic side to the application.
Megan Wheeler 09:00
I think about this, so much of, you know, my journey of, I had work experience, and then I went to grad school.And I got
frustrated with grad school, to be perfectly honest- because the research in psychology, as a lot of us know, if you go into
the research, is often conducted on college freshmen who want a couple extra bucks to take a survey. And so you really
have to be thoughtful of the research that you’re looking at. So that sense of, you know, there’s basic research, there’s
applied research. So many researchers now are really able, with data, to get into organizations which is really interesting to
me.So then I come to LifeLab, where I’m taking my understanding of best or better practices that you learn in academia. But
also my understanding that, like, it’s not always perfect in organizations. And then I go to LifeLab, where the frameworks that
LifeLab teaches, that are built and based on meta-analyses of research, and then put into practice with the organizations
that LifeLab works with. Those frameworks were hands down more impactful than grad school.
Micaela Mathre 10:05
Interesting.
Megan Wheeler 10:05
And I’m not trying to knock grad school. I learned a lot. The simplicity of those frameworks and then seeing them go into
action was really helpful. All right. So then go into becoming a leader, and the thing that I think I realized is that these And I
think about this now in terms of programs that I create is that you are also operating within a system. And you can’t do one
and not the other. You can’t just teach behaviors and expect that everything will shift.You have to have a really good
understanding of the system that is being modeled by leaders.
Megan Wheeler 10:39
You have to have access to those leaders I think, so that there’s that trust built.And so when I was in a leadership position at
LifeLab, one of the things that I thought was so helpful is that there was no manipulating. There was no tricking anyone.
Megan Wheeler 10:56
And everyone knew what you were doing. You know if you’re using the language, but the language that was just naturally
built, because it’s what we teach at LifeLab did make it a lot easier to be able to, let’s say, de-blur feedback.
Megan Wheeler 11:10
Like, I can just give feedback more directly. I can talk about my most important things, my MITs, and that was easier to do.
And also, leading is really hard to do, because sometimes, especially in a department, you don’t have the control over the
full system. That was a lesson that I think I learned from an empathy perspective, whether it’s, you know, cognitive or
emotional empathy. I was so intertwined with the care for my team. I learned that lesson, I think, the hard way, as like,
“Oh,
this is a business.
” This is a business that has to operate.I’m not there as the leader of this department to just defend my
department.I have to really think about the impact on the full business. And how do we collaborate?
Megan Wheeler 11:56
So there’s, like, multiple teams that you play on when you’re in a leadership role, especially at a larger organization. At that
level.
Micaela Mathre 12:04
Was it Jim Collins, The Concept of First Team?
Megan Wheeler 12:06
I think Patrick Lencioni.
Micaela Mathre 12:07
You’re right. Five Dysfunctions. That is something I oftentimes think about. When you’re in a leadership role, so that concept
of first team is basically, like, just what Megan’s talking about, that in a leadership role, in my role as an executive. You have
to keep the business top of mind, and your first team is your leadership cohort and not your direct reports or the department
you’re leading. And that is something that I think a lot of leaders have a hard time with, because you’re in the day-to-day
with your department. And candidly, like, you want to feel good and look good and get good responses from your direct
reports, because you’re interacting with them so much more frequently, I think.
Micaela Mathre 12:51
But at the end of the day, like, holding the business top of mind and the outcomes for the broader business is your role in
leadership. And I oftentimes think of that as, like, context switching. Like, you have to switch context. Like, I think it’s so
critical in a business to have a united first team. Like, we are all smart, right? And you pick up on dysfunction at a leader.
Like, any employee, if you’ve ever had a job anywhere, you’ve picked up on the dysfunction at the leadership level, because
you’ll see it in different ways.You’ll hear your department head not talking well of other functions within the business.
Micaela Mathre 13:26
And that kinda, like, bleeds down into the organization.But it’s a hard lesson to learn. Honestly, something I’m still learning.
Like, that is something I talk with my team about often, is, like, so much of this is iterative, and maybe that’s the concept
you were talking about, too, that the founders of LifeLab so clearly honed in on. Like, it’s all a grand experiment. You know?
Micaela Mathre 13:46
Like, we reallyA lot of this is, like, trial and error. And absolutely there’s best practices, and there’s research and science that
we can fall back on. And at the end of the day, like, we are all dynamic individuals making up very dynamic organizations.
Micaela Mathre 14:04
Tell me a little bit about Articulate, what the company does. I think many will be familiar, but for those that aren’t, your
current role and kind of what you’ve been navigating there since you joined a few years ago.
Megan Wheeler 14:14
So Articulate is, I would say, one of the world’s leading platform softwares for e-learning, for training. And so I was super
interested in learning more about that side of learning and development.And one thing, this might sound maybe ignorant on
my part but coming from a background in organizational psychology and having L&D roles, learning and development roles,
prior to LifeLabs, and working in organizations, I didn’t realize how much L&D work is through online training.
Megan Wheeler 14:47
Especially when we’re working, talking about larger organizations in multiple languages, and enablement that needs to
happen really rapidly. And so I wanted to learn more about that side of the business. And lucky enough, through someone I
knew, who knew someone who was working there, she had heard about a role.
Megan Wheeler 15:08
And at that point in time, I was focusing solely on my own consulting work. And we’ll see, I don’t know if we wanna cut this or
not. But I went into the Articulate interview thinking,
“Ooh, I will try to convince them that they should just hire me as a
consultant.
”
Micaela Mathre 15:22
As a consultant. Sure.
Megan Wheeler 15:23
‘Cause that’s what I know at this point I’ve been doing this for eight years. I know how to come in and consult, help you build
out these programs.But then through the interview process, I fell in love with the humans that I was interviewing with. I
realized how much I missed a team. And there is something about being on the inside where kinda going back to that
impact, where I can see some of that impact, take work a little bit further. And so I joined a couple of years ago
Megan Wheeler 15:53
knowing that a big area that they wanted to focus on was manager training and leadership development. I said,
“Okay, I can
do that.
” Basically took a lot of my background, my experiences at LifeLabs, and got to full autonomy. Thankful to the
leaders at Articulate for knowing that it’s important, and giving me, trusting me to just develop a program that can help
support a shift in terms of establishing expectations for leaders. We built out a full program where we are a fully remote
company. We decided to fly folks in to a two-day in-person meetup really focused around, how do you harness psychological
safety? How do you learn how to coach employees? How do you give feedback? And then we put managers into a bit of an
experiment themselves, or a design thinking workshop, where they had to solve some business problems
Micaela Mathre 16:49
Ooh, I like that. Huh
Megan Wheeler 16:50
Wwhere the people team would then go back and work to implement. So something that came out of that was, you know,
our, our review process, our performance reviews, really finding, how do we meet people more in the moment while not
being a distraction? Really allow for folks to, on a regular basis, pause and really think about having those conversations
versus an annual performance review.
Micaela Mathre 17:11
Interesting.
Megan Wheeler 17:12
Which was a huge, heavy lift.Also, not always the best approach when you have to think back to 11 months ago how
somebody was operating.Something that, uh, I’ve enjoyed that program.So we actually limited it so that it was fairly small
no more than 40 people in each session, so we ran a few of them.
Micaela Mathre 17:31
Okay. And was that just managers or senior leaders? Like, what was the mix that you had in the program?
Megan Wheeler 17:36
It was any people manager. So for some of them, and this is, we also experimented with if we had the right amount we
would separate a table of more of our senior leaders, where they could start to really have conversations of, like, what is it
like to manage managers? We’re asking managers these questions, and there was some really good cross-functional
learning. I think, that came from that. And then in some situations, we actually put them at the tables with folks and then
that also created some, some learning.
Micaela Mathre 18:04
A different dynamic.
Megan Wheeler 18:05
Different dynamics. Every one of our CT members came. We had, they had their own cohort, where we asked them not only
to participate, but also to share. Like, what are their hopes? What were their experiences? What did they learn? And then
coming back from that, that’s where we really start to build on the connections that are made. And I think I noticed that,
while even working at LifeLabs, is that the skills are so important. The practice in those sessions is so important.But then the
connections made where you have an engineering manager and a sales manager realizing, oh, like, our roles are different,
but we actually struggle with some very similar things.
Megan Wheeler 18:41
And connecting and kind of breaking down some walls or silos that people tend to operate in can be just as, if not more,
beneficial afterwards. So then I take folks through some smaller post-meetup groups where we kind of hone in on practicing
those skills, but, uh, also having a chance to, to kind of bring real issues and get some feedback, coaching advice from, from
other leaders in a smaller setting where you’ve already established maybe some trust.
Micaela Mathre 19:09
Some rapport.
Micaela Mathre 19:10
Tell us about the decision to do the on-sites in person.
Megan Wheeler 19:15
That’s a good question.I actually didn’t think I was gonna get the buy-in to do it in person. We are a fully remote company.
Articulate has been remote since the beginning.
Micaela Mathre 19:23
Interesting.
Megan Wheeler 19:25
So, so much of the culture is comfortable and familiar with being remote, so I wasn’t sure I was gonna get the buy-in. But
when we pitched this to the C team and really talked about, A, minimizing distraction. Like, that’s a big one. when you’ve got
folks that are just also used to working you’re not gonna compete with Slack. You’re not gonna compete with getting some
work done.
Megan Wheeler 19:48
But humans are still human. And there is something to be said about being able to be in contact with, with other humans.
And it creates an experience. So this goes from just creating, like, trainings or workshops to really thinking about the full
experience design, which was really, really fun. Think about the, what you want people to feel. How do you kind of handle
more of the sensory learning than just what you can get into Zoom? And I really just, I think I commend our leadership team
for, I mean, it’s an investment. And I don’t know that every company is in a place to make that kind of investment, but it
really speaks to the value that the leadership team has on the culture, the people and also, like, the business
reason.Humans are the most valuable resource companies have. And if you’re not gonna invest in the humans, and
particularly, you know, that, that leader is
Micaela Mathre 20:43
It’s your multiplier
Megan Wheeler 20:44
it’s the multiplier. It’s the biggest ROI. It’s like-that’s like, you can speak in business language of, like-this is your best
investment is to actually take these leaders off for two days connect with each other, build those connections in a way that
they would never be able to do in a Zoom meeting.
Micaela Mathre 20:58
Right.
Megan Wheeler 20:58
Because it’s all of the things that happen maybe in between the sessions, in the lunch conversations, and hearing stories
also, there, we build in some vulnerability intentionally into that where you can see each other more as human versus what
you can do over Zoom.
Micaela Mathre 21:12
Absolutely. I think that’s so interesting, and I do actually wanna shift gears and chat a little more about the role of AI and
kind of the transformation we’re in, but what I heard you say is, like, the component and one part of bringing people
together in person is thinking about the experience and, and the transformation that happens when people are together in
person, and it is not possible to replicate that. I think in a virtual environment, I think you can have elements of it. We did
something similar this year for the first time at Life Labs. We brought our sales team together in April, in Nashville, and it
was twofold for us. It was absolutely some skill building, and there are some things we’re working to do at Life Labs within
the sales role, and so there was some real practical skill building that we wanted to do together, but it was also just building
connection and rapport.
Micaela Mathre 22:06
Because we all work remotely, and we’re fully distributed, and that time for just, like, tell me about your life life not your
work life is so…Like, the moments for me that actually stand out from that time in Nashville were, like, the coffee
conversations, and we did a really amazing activity called Lifeline, which I’ll share with listeners. Actually, I, I really
recommend this if you’ve got a small enough group of people that it makes sense. But where we basically started out the
morning, and this is very LifeLabs of us. I got this from Burton Goldfield, who’s one of our board members. We started out, it
was, like, over coffee, and everybody got a piece of paper, and we drew a line down the piece of paper, and I gave folks
some thinking time, like 10 to 15 minutes, and you can get as personal or not, like, totally open, and we try and create a
safe space, like Vegas rules. And on this piece of paper, you plot your highs above the line, and then you plot your lows
below the line, and you try to limit it to, like, three to five. And then we went around the circle, and we shared some of these,
like, distinct moments in our lives with each other. And it was fascinating to me because at that point I’m like,
“Oh, I’ve
worked with some of these people for two and a half years, but I really don’t know much about them.
” Like, and I also, the
way that I operate in the workplace is very, like, business business.
Micaela Mathre 23:21
Like, I’m kinda like,
“Here’s the task at hand,
” and I love working with people on the task at hand, but oftentimes I don’t get
too far outside of that. And so that stood out to me so much from that time in Nashville, which was just, like, beyond, you
know, these individuals I get to see on an, a daily basis who are incredible and do really good work. There is so much more to
us that we are bringing to that screen or that facilitated meeting. That is, like, what fuels me. So I oftentimes also think
about the value of in person is just engagement. It helps you engage in a way, and it, it keeps you going in a way that you’re
just not gonna get without that investment. So kudos to the leadership at Articulate for investing in that as well.
Micaela Mathre 24:02
Megan has some great posts on LinkedIn for our listeners, so go follow.
Megan Wheeler 24:06
Oh, so not true, but thank you.
Micaela Mathre 24:07
Megan Wheeler. This will pressure you to post more, right?
Megan Wheeler 24:10
Okay.
Micaela Mathre 24:10
You wrote,
“AI is a superpower. It accelerates insight, sharpens thinking, personalizes development, and removes friction
from how we learn. It can help us practice, draft, reflect, synthesize, and explore faster than ever before. And yet, the more
powerful our tools become, the more intentional we have to be about designing for what AI can’t replace. In a remote AI-
enabled environment, I am doubling down on live dialogue over passive consumption, naming tensions in real time,
practicing feedback in counity, creating spaces where people feel seen, challenged, and supported.
” Slowing down enough
for reflection with others. Because learning isn’t just information transfer, it’s identity work, it’s courage, it’s belonging, it’s
being witnessed as you grow. If AI expands our cognitive capacity, then human connection expands our developmental
capacity.
Megan Wheeler 25:03
That was good.
Micaela Mathre 25:04
That was pretty good.
Megan Wheeler 25:04
I don’t know.
Micaela Mathre 25:04
Do you know who wrote that? That was you. That was you.
Micaela Mathre 25:07
I am 100 times more productive than I’ve ever been in my career.Every single person on my team is.
Megan Wheeler 25:14
Yes
Micaela Mathre 25:14
Right?
Micaela Mathre 25:15
So there’s just this absolute limitless potential that I think about, and yet we still need each other.And so tell me a little bit
about this, like, AI expanding our capacity while that human connection expanding our developmental capacity.
Megan Wheeler 25:32
So there’s one side, which is that I maybe think you go back to how researchers look at management or the jobs to be
done.You think of, these are the skills or the jobs to be done.AI can be so helpful with the jobs to be done. I have felt that.
But there’s another element to getting work done, which is relationships. And there’s a lot to say that humans aren’t perfect
at relationships, for sure, and we’re training these models which actually have been shown to be more empathetic than the
humans that have trained them.
Megan Wheeler 26:00
We get work done through other humans and with other humans, and so that is so imperative to thinking about those as
skillsets. Because, you know, how work is gonna get done is gonna continue to evolve, but we have to be able to do it with
other humans. And I think there is lots of opportunity here for not just leaders, but knowledge workers, workers in general, to
really, again, go back to the connections we have with other humans and lean on each other in those relationships. I also
think about a little bit of, I guess, nerves I have with what’s happening with AI, and I even see it with myself.You know, the
classic example of Google Maps, I cannot drive around anymore without my Google Maps.
Micaela Mathre 26:42
Right.
Megan Wheeler 26:42
And sometimes I’ll play a game with myself of can I get there without it? And then I get nervous, and I’m like,
“Well, I….
” And
is that, like, an efficiency thing? Like, maybe if I just didn’t have to get anywhere in a hurry, I would, you know, make some
wrong turns and learn something new. And, like, we used to do that all the time.
Micaela Mathre 27:03
And then you become overly dependent on it similarly. I can’t even get around New York anymore without Google Maps,
which is wild,
’cause I’m like Manhattan’s a grid.Like, it really shouldn’t be hard.
Megan Wheeler 27:12
Even from the East, we got this.
Micaela Mathre 27:13
But. It’s like, when I first moved there, right, I was like, I could find my way on a bike all over the city, and now I go back for
work often, and I’m like,
“Where’s Fifth Ave?” Like, it- it’s so true. You really kind of become dependent. So you think about
the implications of that, like, if we start to outsource some of this thinking
Megan Wheeler 27:29
Too much of the cognitive thinking. We’re doing ourselves a disservice.I think it’s kind of like that Einstein’s two-minute rule,
where it’s if a job takes two minutes or less, just do it. Otherwise, write it down.There’s gonna be benefits to definitely using
AI for things that we want to consciously outsource.I hope if I can watch this episode, you know, in the future I hope my
future me can watch this and say,
“Okay, I really tried to stay true to still using my cognitive functioning for the things that I
feel I uniquely can can add to.
” Spreadsheet formulas is not something that I really want to, at this point, spend too much
time thinking about.
Micaela Mathre 28:08
Right.
Megan Wheeler 28:08
I will gladly let Gemini tell me about that formula and then repeat it on the spreadsheets, and allow me to do things that I
couldn’t like, I could never do before. That’s not a skillset that I have. Project management is also something that I don’t
think is a strength of mine. I’m really good at big picture ideating and visioning something up, and I can sort of break it
down.But then now using AI to project manage it helps me at least stay honest to where I know that for me, my brain gets
really excited to start things.
Megan Wheeler 28:39
I don’t love seeing things through and, like finishing them. So if there’s a human that also, like, likes taking those details and
finishing it, then that’s awesome to partner with. And then if there isn’t that other human then where can AI, like, keep me
accountable and send me the reminders and keep me, give me the deadlines. That I found really helpful.
Micaela Mathre 28:58
In true Life Labs fashion, we’re gonna do a Leader Lab lightning round.So you’ve got three seconds to answer
these.Complete the sentence: Great managers do more blank and less blank.
Megan Wheeler 29:13
More asking and less telling.
Micaela Mathre 29:16
That’s good. The most underrated leadership skill according to you is?
Megan Wheeler 29:21
MITs.
Micaela Mathre 29:21
Which means
Megan Wheeler 29:22
Most important things.
Megan Wheeler 29:24
Knowing them, asking them, aligning on them.
Micaela Mathre 29:26
You know a manager is growing when they stop blank?
Megan Wheeler 29:30
Having all of the right answers.
Micaela Mathre 29:32
One word your team or colleagues would use to describe you?
Megan Wheeler 29:36
So funny.
Micaela Mathre 29:39
I would use that word.I like that.So f- she’s so funny.That’s two words, technically.
Megan Wheeler 29:45
Okay. Funny.
Micaela Mathre 29:46
Funny. Like, emphasis. M dash funny.
Micaela Mathre 29:51
A leadership book, podcast, or creator that you’re loving right now?
Megan Wheeler 29:55
Ooh, The Curiosity Shop with Brene Brown and Adam Grant. Love it.
Micaela Mathre 29:59
Tell us about this, if listeners aren’t familiar.
Megan Wheeler 30:01
So this is newer. They have combined forces, and they have a podcast. They’re on hiatus for the suer right now. Fantastic
episode came out a few weeks ago with Simon Sinek around the biggest, like, leadership strategy is people. And so it’s
literally Brene Brown wonderful researcher, Adam Grant, wonderful researcher, who I both have, like, personal tension with
because I’m like “Oh, I can’t like pop psychology.
” But it is so useful. And they just riff with each other. And they have a
funny relationship where they had, like, a LinkedIn battle. And then they got to know each other, and now they have The
Curiosity Shop.
Micaela Mathre 30:37
Ooh, I like it. Okay.
Micaela Mathre 30:39
One thing managers should stop doing immediately?
Megan Wheeler 30:42
One thing managers should stop doing immediately is using AI to write any kind of personal message to their direct reports.
Micaela Mathre 30:55
You’ve seen examples of this?
Megan Wheeler 30:57
I mean, if you wanna use it to help you craft a difficult message, for sure. But don’t copy-paste.
Micaela Mathre 31:02
Feedback, give it, receive it, or avoid it?
Megan Wheeler 31:05
All give and receive. Ask for it. Give it. Feedback, love it. Like, cannot get enough of it.
Micaela Mathre 31:11
The biggest leadership myth is?
Megan Wheeler 31:13
It’s easier the more, you know, you go up in your career or you get more answers.You actually, like, things get way harder,
and you have way more questions, and you just become okay with that.
Micaela Mathre 31:25
The strongest signal that a company has a healthy culture?
Megan Wheeler 31:27
The leaders are modeling what you want to see from everyone.
Micaela Mathre 31:32
And where do you see that come through? Like, in what ways, in what spaces?
Megan Wheeler 31:36
Language is a big one. When I think about looking at a healthy culture, are the people using similar language?You don’t
wanna see any weaponization of language.
Micaela Mathre 31:44
One meeting rule everyone should adopt tomorrow?
Megan Wheeler 31:48
End with next steps.
‘Cause everyone’s going back-to-back meetings. Don’t create these open loop. End with next steps.
Micaela Mathre 31:53
Without naming anybody, what’s the best leadership lesson you’ve learned from a bad manager?
Megan Wheeler 31:58
Don’t take yourself so seriously. Like, have some fun.
Micaela Mathre 32:01
We ask the same question to all of our guests on the podcast because we want to provide some really tangible takeaways
for listeners. What’s one small behavioral shift that you’d recoend for listeners who want to build more resilient, adaptable
teams, something that they could try tomorrow?
Megan Wheeler 32:19
I worry I’ve already said it, like, three times in this podcast. The MIT method is, not only do I personally fundamentally have
to come back to this and remember this, but I hear this from executives all the time is just knowing what your most
important things are, and asking that of your team, making sure that they know what’s yours so there’s just
alignment.Especially right now, the pace of change is so intense.The amount of times we talk about a VUCA environment you
know, volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity. Things shift all the time. And, you know, if you go quarter to quarter to
make your, your OKRs, your goals, and maybe that works for you, but things are gonna shift way faster-
Micaela Mathre 33:01
Yes, yes
Megan Wheeler 33:01
Than you have three months. So continuously just aligning with what are your most important things this week, today.
Having that, a practice of that as a leader I think is, is incredible, and being able to communicate that and, and align with a
team. I think it’s one small shift that can have a huge impact.
Micaela Mathre 33:18
That’s such a great recommendation. Can you give us an example of, like, where and how you could implement the MIT
framework if you’re in a leadership role? Like, when does that come into play?
Megan Wheeler 33:30
One-on-ones. Like, an easy way, so one thing you can do for yourself is just set a calendar block every morning, or maybe
it’s a calendar block before you close your laptop at the end of the day. Okay, what are all the things I thought I was gonna
get done today that all the fires showed up and I didn’t get to?What are my MITs for tomorrow?Maybe that’s a self practice
first thing in the morning.But then use your one-on-ones. Like, that’s just, you know, you can go into what are your MITs this
week? Okay, here are mine. Here’s what’s top of mind for me.Here’s what’s shifted. And so one-on-ones are an easy way to
implement those.I’ve also seen teams do this over Slack asynchronously.
Megan Wheeler 34:02
I remember working at LifeLab’s and I learned one team, and I still think about this they have You, you can write it into a
Slack flow where a bot asks you Monday morning, what are your MITs? And then the whole team shares their MITs. Friday,
there’s another Slack flow where you ask about how those were followed up.So you can build in automations if you want to
and then also just use your one-on-ones.
Micaela Mathre 34:24
And I think you named something that’s really important here too, which is, um, sometimes they shift. And so naming that
shift, like, it’s indisputable the rate of change is incredible right now, and resilient organizations are adapting, iterating,
experimenting. But as a leader, you’re gonna drive people absolutely insane if you’re not counicating, like, , this was the
most important thing last week, and this week it’s this. Or like-
Megan Wheeler 34:54
And that’s why. This is why
Micaela Mathre 34:54
and here’s why, and here’s where we’re going. Like, I think there’s so much there.
Micaela Mathre 34:58
Maybe one final question for you. Your favorite LifeLab’s workshop?
Megan Wheeler 35:02
I would say here’s the one I’ll, I’ll say even though I literally think about all of them all the teaching them at that pace for
seven and a half years they’re in my sleep.
Micaela Mathre 35:13
You’re having dreams about Tipping Point skills?
Megan Wheeler 35:15
But I would say-
Micaela Mathre 35:16
This is what you’re telling us
Megan Wheeler 35:16
yes, I do. I do still. I would say the time management workshop only because it surprised me. I was one that, uh, I thought,
“Oh, that’s so boring.
” It’s so dry. Nobody wants to, like, learn time management. And I fell in love with this workshop. It
changed my life. So did James Clear, Atomic Habits.
Megan Wheeler 35:38
I think that book came out a while ago.It made me realize that time management can actually be fun. And because it
gamifies your day where you could really have, like, what do you have control over? What do you not have control over? And
literally gamifying productivity, my brain, something about my brain and the dopamine that I get by getting things done is
really fun.
Megan Wheeler 36:01
And then being able to teach that to other people in a fun way was, was awesome.
Micaela Mathre 36:06
I love that. And it comes back to what you said earlier, which is, like, bringing the playfulness into work.
Micaela Mathre 36:12
Um, and your advice too, like, don’t take yourself so seriously, and that’s, like, a very tangible workshop in how to do that
and, like, have some fun. Because at the end of the day, we spend a lot of our time in the workplace.
Micaela Mathre 36:24
Megan, it was so lovely having you on the LeaderLab.
Megan Wheeler 36:27
Thanks for having me
Micaela Mathre 36:28
So enjoyed this time, and thank you for the warm welcome to Charleston.